I have a 2wd 2000 regular cab stepside bed Silverado that used to make closer to 600-650 wheel horsepower with the D1-SC Procharger and 4L80E. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . Joined Feb 11, 2007 Messages 11 Location . Helping transmission shops achievesuccessful and profitable operation. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. Copyright 2006-2020 GEARS Magazine. Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. Hi Jeff, We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. 10 Speed 10L80 Transmission Build! ATFSpeed - YouTube It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. This allows him to see what kinds of issues some of these transmissions come back to the dealer with while under warranty. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. 2nazty New Member. There are five main inputs the vehicle uses for transmission shift strategy, they are: The Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle must be performed after any of the following procedures are performed: Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows: After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. They are listed as Type A, Type B, and Type C diagnostic trouble codes. I am interested in enhancing my vehicles performance. This is a normal and desired behavior. I have a 700 R4 trani with a dash mounted after market switch to engage or disengage my lock up.The trani has a 2500 stall & is behind a old school 383 stroker engine with 388 hp at the motor with a 3.73 Rr gear. Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. Thank you. It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. The taper may exist so that the clutch surface goes flat when the cover is welded together were not sure. As a transmission rebuilder, you know that flatness and rigidity of both apply and reaction surfaces are key to long clutch life in transmission clutch packs its the exact same in the torque converter. About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. PML GM 6L90, 6L90E Deep Transmission Pan - PML YourCovers New Ford/GM 10-Speed Automatic Transmission: 10 Things to Know You also asked about GM's new 6L80E. 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. The stator shaft support housing comes with these gears as one assembly. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. Powerglide (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), TH350 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), TH400 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP), TH200-4R (bellhousing pattern - BOP, Fit-all), TH700-R4 /4L60 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet). This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . The 4L80E is a very large, heavy transmission but, like its original TH-400 cousin, it can absorb and transmit an enormous amount of engine torque. This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. Maximum shift speed is 6500 RPM. Starting in 1996, many 4L60E transmissions employed a bolt-on bellhousing. Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! Always appreciate the great exchanges. The TCM is actually even programmed to adjust its operation for transmission clutch wear. What is your recomendation for towing? GM 10L80: A new kind of pump noise. Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. Also since the transmission is different the gearing and tuning are naturally different. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. Remember, this is just a theory. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. While converter failures are not uncommon with other transmission families, you are thinking that this is really becoming a pattern for the 6L80, 6L90. (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), (see also capacity of fluid in the converter. Applications. only) '72-'79, Small Block V8, Gen. The TCM-2650 is compatible with the GM 6L45/50, 6L80/90 . Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. Powertrain Expo Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. The 6L80 is a modular transmission, featuring removable bellhousings and tailhousings for interchangeability with the GM 90 Degree engines and other potential engines in the future. A P59 PCM controlled both the engine and the transmission. Based around the 4L80E (and fitting wherever a 4L80E will fit), the 6X is a true six-speed transmission that TCI rates at 850-plus horsepower. The high pressure oil pump inside this transmission is incredibly complicated for no visible reason. If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. If you have your heart set on a six-speed automatic to back your LS, consider TCI's 6X transmission. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. Reactions: me32. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. If the transmission is in the vehicle you can use the RPO tag in the glove compartment. $499.00. Where the original 4L80E First gear is 2.48:1, TCI created a 2.97:1 First gear ratio. It appears that GM has put a very minor taper into the cover and possibly the piston as well. Indirectly affects TCC control and shift control. But the cause he discovered was related to the pump. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. It is a 5 position shifter, Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and Sport Mode. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. The case is a cast aluminum alloy. Beginning with the F-150, it then made its way into the Mustang and the Expedition (as well as the Everest, and upcoming Ranger reboot). The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. JT. This is the abridged version of my problem. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. It is a heavy-duty version of the 6L80 six-speed automatic, with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total, and a strengthened output gearset, that uses wider gears than the 6L80. I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. GM has been useless to say the least, and waited me out (now off warranty). Gears Magazine Second 2.99 I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. With this in mind, there are (3) major groups of failure management strategies that are used when certain diagnostic trouble codes are present. Comes with a complete harness and the necessary software to program the TCM-2650 Module. Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. $3,245*. The complaints may be difficult to duplicate. Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. The location of the warmer and the routing of the hoses can vary widely. This suggests that the idler gear and ball bearing assembly has a tight interference fit to the stator shaft support housing. Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. 2020 10l80 4wd an I one to convert to 2wd. Foremost on the list is the Sonnax clutch apply kit. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. List of GM transmissions - Wikipedia Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. Like most GM automatic transmissions, the easiest way to tell them apart is by using the pan gasket. So if there are any possible ways to upgrade the RPM Level 6 4L70E in my 416 CI Trailblazer, the 4L80E in my Silverado with a LS2 with heavily worked and milled 243s, Ported and polished Fast LSXRT 102mm intake, and the Caprice PPV I am looking for the right one. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. Recently, they received a 2021 GMC Yukon with a very unusual sound coming from the front of its 10L80 transmission. One needs to realize that the stamped covers are not all that flat to begin with. Ninth 0.69 TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! Over time, technicians start to see the same patterns of failures in different families of units. Why is that? I & II Unlike the 4L60E and 4L80E, the 6L80 is not always referred to as with the E on the end because its been over 25 years since the last non electronic GM transmission has been in production. Hi, im doing a swap from Yukon 2019 to 1987 Regal. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: 2017- Ford F-150 2018- Ford Mustang 2018- Ford Expedition 2018- Lincoln Navigator 2019- Ford Ranger 2019- Ford Everest In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. Bolt and gasket inlcuded. Conceptually, locking the converter should help the mph trap speed by reducing slippage. Its been on the road for a few years, and were starting to see some common failures for this unit. Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. GM Transmission Dimensions - Pace Performance Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: You know where this is going yup, its the converter. The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. The TCI six-speed version has a few special additions to it. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. LS Swap Automatic Transmission Guide - Chevy Hardcore this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. Developing any new technology will cost an absolute ton of money, which why its not unusual for car companies to co-develop things like chassis and transmissions. Exceptional torque rating. Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. Its a little tough to see, but the thickness of the pistons is also different. What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. Im with you on AFM is crap. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. 6L80 Transmission FAQ | Frequently Asked Questions Find Dealer. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. The bottom line: The very thin (.020") woven carbon friction material cant survive the way the JMBX piston applies. We Specialize In: GM LS Conversions Engine & Trans Combo Kits Unique Ready to Run Engines Have a question? It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. 6L / 8L / 10L Transmission If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). Thought's? Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? 97 it's a, I have a 2007 h3 hummer base model. It's meant to be used with rear-wheel drive and it requires 8.4 quarts of fluid. The ideal upgrade for modified performance vehicles, Sonnax 3-bolt adapter flange yoke kit T35-GMFD-01K makes it easy to convert a two-piece driveline to a one-piece, U-joint-style driveline. Subscribe Now I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup. That is RIDICULOUS, Cheryl. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. Tap-2000 | 6l80e/6l90e Tap Shifter Kit Running 12.60s at 111 is a fun ride! GM states, ". General 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter 11 Things You Need to Know about Ford & GM's 10-Speed Transmission Transmission Report: 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild. Need to convert 10L80 rom 4wd to 2wd. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. The Sonnax forged covers and pistons are designed to be flat and will stay that way through the forces of converter welding, miles of driving and varying input torque from the engine. This idler gear and ball bearing assembly is mounted to the stator shaft support housing. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. Fits 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, 10L80 units, TR6060, TR3160 manual units. Fluid Type Mercon ULV ATF The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, 32-bit computer integrated into the valve body of the 6L80 / 6L90 and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. US Shift Stand-Alone Transmission Controllers and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. But its interesting to note that there is a very low cover/piston failure rate for the 4L60-E TMBX converter. Essentially what TCI did was to engage the overdrive at the back of the trans to split the gear spread between the original First and Second gear ratios and again between Second and Third. It has a line pressure tap for diagnostic purposes. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). This is an immediate DTC that effects emissions. You will need to ship your transmission to us for the rebuild. Shift the transmission to Neutral. if (yr!=2012) Honda CR-V Hybrid Racer Is an 800-HP Test Bed. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. The drive gear and idler gear with the bearing are not sold separately. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. So is the 10L90 entirely different or does it just have stronger parts? The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. GM 6L80 transmission - Wikipedia The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. There may or may not be codes associated with these complaints. Its like wheres Waldo. Before answering that question, its worth noting the role that Sonnax plays in the converter rebuilding business. Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. full. Wait 2 seconds. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. Sonnax highlights two product lines for helping with heavy solenoids for GM/Ford 10L/10R and 9T series transmissions. Unlike previous shift solenoids, they are mechanical in nature in that no transmission fluid passes through them (Figure 2). But the replacement of this assembly requires new bolts. The dipstick has three different fill marks, A, B and C. These fill marks are model dependent and should be verified with factory information when the fluid level is checked (Figure 11). Bowler Transmission Cooler Manifold for GM 6, 8, & 10 speed automatic I would be willing to get it rebuilt, but want it to function like it should (not back to the way it came from GM). Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. Seventh 1.00 The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. It also contains a durable transmission pan, reliable gear seat, EPC, a 13-vane pump assembly, high-performance cooler, hardened stator shaft with rings and specialized control solenoids. Wait 3-5 minutes before driving. TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives. The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. The same shift strategy that is used for the upshift may be applied during a downshift. But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. Copyright 2012 So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. That is just the beginning. All rights reserved. Online Buyer's Guide Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. Legal/Privacy. to 885 ft. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System.