The company restructured the line into Winton (student grade oil paints), Griffin (alkyds), and Cotman (watercolours). You certainly know your paint! They make some colours that the other brands don´t have and my pallet will include these colours from Schmincke … I’ve found little information on this paint. Stay classy Michael! More options listed below. Founded in the year 1881 in Germany, by Hermann Schmincke and Josef Horadam. Some people say they are oily, but I don’t mind. I use Zinc the least, and not on it’s own at all, because of those complaints described above in the post. https://doodlewash.com/doodlewash-review-schmincke-sennelier-maimeriblu I would like to see your thoughts on Rublev paints, they are a small company in Northern CA, and James Gurney mentioned them in his blog at one time. Good luck! The company is focussed on studio safety, has a very good website, and does a lot of research and education, all which is great. Like most natural products, quality differs from year to year – like good wine. I might suggest Holbein or Gamblin. In the last few years, they have moved toward using just walnut oil (with dryers), so that is something to be aware of. WE were urged to by Winsor Newton Artists Watercolors and Acrylic and Oil paints.I still do but gladly use the other brands I was sent with an order of art supplies from Jerry’s Artarama! For gouache I am using Holbein’s Acryla Gouache; their pigment […], […] (The Netherlands), Sennelier (France), Schminke Horadam (Germany), and Winsor & Newton (UK) are some of the watercolor […], […] watercolor florals are created in realist style. Got introduced to DS not long after I got my Sennelier set, and love the DS *almost* as much as I love Sennelier lol (although for different reasons) Several of my professional artist friends who have been watching me learn to paint were absolutely gobsmacked at the massive improvement in my work that happened just due to switching from Cotman (which was what I figured I should be using as a new watercolourist – student grade paints – until I felt like I had a handle on what I was doing lol and could justify buying more expensive paints, so much for that LOL!) I stuck to doing a lighter wash for example purposes . I did them all in a row. Aimed at beginners, they used to come in rather charming wood boxes with paint medium included. Scissors won’t give that hand torn look, and then there is also the risk of not getting a straight edge. For the old tubes, 3 out of 5. Thanks for the info Jason. Many thanks. Once again, blog posts like this take a lot of experience and work; my thanks. The pigments are so clear and vibrant. I had a 500ml can of titanium white that was very nice in terms of thickness, smoothness and strength, but smaller amounts in other colours were packaged in plastic tubes, and I was never thrilled with them. One would be so lucky to find a student line with paint this good nowadays. I love your detailed reviews! Primary Yellow, French Vermilion, Cinereous Blue, Ultramarine Blue, Phthalo Green Light, Sap Green, Burnt Umber, Payne’s Grey, Neutral Tint. I’m in Canada too . It remains so. Sounds like a wonderful trip. So far, I am so satisfied. Currently, I am using two brands of watercolor, Winsor & Newton and Sennelier. Fast drying properties aside, this is student paint full stop. They’re highly pigmented, vibrant, and transparent. ( Log Out / Pebeo Studio oil (now called Studio XL) are basic paints often sold in sets aimed at beginners. For instance, Kordofan Gum Arabic from the Southern Sahara region is a principal ingredient. Ok, keep painting. 1.5 out of 5. Since you do lots of review, please tell me your experience on Sennelier Watercolors and Holbein Watercolors both in its own pans and tubes, and tell me why you pick and use that brand over the others. Schminke Mussini paints have resin in them. 4.5 out of 5. Perhaps most impactful to the consumer, in terms of the actual paint, is the artist oil paint manufacturer. Maybe could have put a little more oil or stabilizer in that one! Old Holland likes to tell you they started making paint in 1664. I’ve just re-started painting in oils after a decade of using other media, and need to replace some of my paints. Hi I’m the Doodlewash Supply Blogger and offer reviews of various types of art supplies, watercolors, and helpful tips. to the Sennelier. That can be frustrating, but they still manage a 5 out of 5. It’s... Ready to add a little magic to your watercolor game? Winsor and Newton are owned by a very large company called Colart, and these paints are now made in Le Mans France at an industrial scale along side Lefranc and Bourgeois (information on that here). Calcium also assists in pigment dispersion and reduces loss of dry when added in the pigment grinding stage, which speeds up manufacturing time. Put simply- I love this book. Official World Watercolor Month Giveaways! First a brief introduction to oil paint manufacturing: Most raw pigments in artists’ paint these days come from commercial suppliers who sell to many different industries. But better paint than crack I always say , Another post full of interesting titbits, thanks! Schmincke Mussini Fine Artists Oil Color Chart …Fine Artists' Resin Oil Colors are the only oil color that uses the formulas of the great masters to provide unparalleled brilliance and luminosity in your paintings and a truly reliable paint … Liquitex was sold to Binney and Smith in 1964, so maybe it was them who discontinued the line – it isn’t mentioned in any of the history I’ve read, so it doesn’t look to have been a priority. I had never heard of the Italian brand before. Ferrario Van Dyck is an Italian paint that isn’t distributed in Canada that I know of. I Google-mapped their manufacturing facility and it’s adorably Belgian. There is little difference between these and Van Gogh except how much paint you are buying. Williamsburg paints are pretty expensive, so I use this brand for more important colours. I think it depends on your painting style- if you are going to use big brushes, little half pans might not be suitable, or maybe you like the type of palette MG comes with. M Graham is an interesting paint. Do you make lovely things with watercolor and want to be featured in the next Guest Artist post?! I use it because I have some, it keeps all the swatches in one place, it keeps things consistent, and a lot of people use it. Oye! Another example of an outstanding colour would be Michael Harding’s Permanent Orange, which is an amazingly intense transparent orange that is useful in mixes and for glazing. Generally weak in tinting strength, they make up for that by being oily, loose out of the tube, and easily blown out when mixed. Dick Blick usually has a good deal on the Sennelier with some free pans included. It’s either that possibility or a trip to New York. I’m waiting to squeeze the samples into pans, it’s a lot of paint and I need to decide some stuff before I open them. ( Log Out / Hi Cathy, thanks so much! An interesting and informative article! Other than those, I have random brands and the odd Raphael, which are nice but seem expensive to me. These paints were connected with the old Walter Foster books on all aspects of painting and drawing. They were the first artist grade paints I ever bought, and I have never regretted making such a big investment – the intensity, colours and translucence are superb, and the way the paint handles is a joy. This post will be updated periodically as I try new brands or find information. I was able to get a special set at 50% off retail from Wet Paint earlier this year. This paint is a bit thicker out of the tube than regular Gamblin. The hex-nut cap design they use can become impossible to unscrew without pliers. Changed processes or priorities at the company? Thanks for your great blog. Cupric Green Deep (PG7) is = Schmincke Phthalo green (PG7) very similar. He developed Liquitex acrylic paint in 1955/56, but it seems like the company continued to produced oil paint under the Permanent Pigments name until some point in the 1970’s. No filler! I have been paying a lot of attention to […], […] shapes such as branches, leaves and foliage. At the end of each description, I give the paint line a totally subjective rank based on how I feel about it overall. Blockx is a Belgian paint manufacturer that is going on five generations of paint-makers – they’ve gotta be doing something right! I used the price of Burnt Sienna for all brands and linked to Dick Blick for this example. Having looked just a little, I realize just how many manufacturers of oil paint there still are, and how distribution (and price) affect the paint which ends up on your palette. I’m almost relieved to know that changing paper will likely help with some of the issues I’ve been struggling with. I’ll keep looking. The colors in the 12 + 6 set are marvelous for a first set of paints. I also had no idea about the fundraising! They dry faster than expected, despite the safflower oil, which probably means they put dryers in the paint. I used the bone folder approach you did too. Their business began in 1881 with the initial manufacture of their oil colours which followed unique traditional paint making methods that had been lost for 100 years that bound the paint in resin rather than the more usual linseed oil. Happy Painting! Still, there are some decent one or two pigment colours in the line, and there is good purpose to having some of this paint, especially if you are a novice painter. In the second palette photo up there, the metal box contains Schmincke pans and the MaimeriBlu reviewed below. Enter your email address to get notifications of new blog posts by email. JANUARY 2021 ART CHALLENGE: Beautiful And New! They also dry glossy. Because it is made where I live, it is often a little bit cheaper than other paints at the same quality. As a person new to oil painting and having heard pros and cons about using a good quality paint, I can’t tell you how many times I have referred back to your review as I am contemplating which brands to try. In June I visited Sennelier in Paris..a highlight!♥ I keep saying I’m not buying more paints, but sometimes I don’t exactly stick to that. It has to have an acceptable balance between quality and price. They rewet with a touch of the brush. They promote a system in which you add alkyd medium to the paint mixture to speed the drying time. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. As a beginner your comprehensive comments are really useful. Thanks again. The two paints have pretty similar personalities overall, but Holbein is just a bit stiffer out of the tube. The history is worth reading. They will be sorely missed by Canadian painters, especially students. Stevenson oil paints are different story than their mediums however. Sennelier also sells their own brand of paper. Trouble is they have few outlets. What a super birthday gift! OR if outside the United States, then please donate directly to The Dreaming Zebra and let us know it’s for World Watercolor Month in the comments with this link. Here is good source of information about different paints: https://jeffchester.wordpress.com/2013/05/23/24/, And here is another quite comprehensive comparative review of oil paints: http://wonderstreet.com/blog/how-to-choose-a-brand-of-oil-paint, And one more for good measure: https://finearttutorials.com/guide/oil-paint-brands-in-review/. I hope one day I live up to it! Permanent Pigments was founded in 1933 by Henry Levinson in Cincinnati OH. That’s a small 4.25″x 6″ block below, I got it from Cheap Joe’s for $11.25, which was the best price I could find. Bellow is a comparison, not only in the three different brand of paints, but artist grade paper vs. student grade paper. They were bought by Golden a few years ago and production moved away from New York City, but the quality has not changed as far as I can tell. I tend toward other brands. Y’know, I spent a few years obsessively collecting Daniel Smith tubes. Also, each tube has a painted strip of the colour at the top which I find helpful and classy. It is pretty liquid-y out of the tube. On paints that I own, I agree with you or understand your reason if I disagree. Good quality paint can really make the difference. Very interesting. Schmincke large box, without brush, 12 half pan set on Amazon- $61. I wonder if you have any input on this issue: I use Daler Rowney Georgian zinc white because I like the subtle tinting and greater transparency of zinc and this brand has a much stronger paint film than other brands I’ve tried (it’s not crumbly) and it doesn’t take forever to dry. FEBRUARY 2021 ART CHALLENGE: Lovely World! Be aware that they have a lot of hues/mixes in their line, which may disappoint as you gain experience. I make my own paint sometimes (link goes to short how-to). 4.5 out of 5 – but be conscious of the paint’s unique mechanics. The color of art pigment database can be a great (if technical) resource: http://www.artiscreation.com/Color_index_names.html#.XzlDZS3Mx2Y. (For good reason; DS is awesome, obviously.). High five to whomever gave that gift to you! I might go Karate Kid on it next time. Sure! Weber Permalba is made in Philadelphia PA. The contemporary paints are decent, well priced paints which are good but not overflowing with attributes. The Cobalt Green Light is gorgeous. The Cadmium Orange flowed really nicely out of the tube. Thanks again. Winsor blue? Lightfastness of that pigment depends on manufacturer however, so may be worth testing, if you like going that far down the rabbit hole! It is kind of a “system” though, and one that doesn’t suit my practice. I can see how a basic colour set for sketching might be worthwhile. With a quick Wikipedia search, I can see that Permanent Pigments was founded in 1933 by Henry Levinson (in Cincinnati it seems). Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. Amazing. Kama Pigments is a Montréal based pigment supplier and paint maker. If only it was possible to get more. That being said, I have a few favorite Holbein, Sennelier and Schmincke tubes that I love for their vibrant pops of color. Urban Watercolor Sketching by Felix Scheinberger. It’s a bit liquid-y and dries a touch too slowly for me. The painting comparison between the Strathmore and Arches paper was so helpful and really illustrates the difference in paint flow. Luckily, the gurus on YouTube and elsewhere […], […] I use are Schmincke paints, Saunders Waterford 300g ROUGH paper and various brushes. I’ll keep my eye open. Reeves oil colour paints used to be small tubes sold in economical sets aimed at the absolute beginner. Paint swatch comparison of all three brands, you can see how different the MaimeriBlu looks compared to the other two brands. Royal Talens Van Gogh is a quite big step below the Rembrandt line in both cost and quality. Official WORLD WATERCOLOR MONTH Giveaways! In no particular order, I have or have used: Winsor and Newton London (this line no longer produced), Grumbacher Pre-tested (both new and very old tubes), Grumbacher Golden Palette (very old tubes), Permanent Pigments (no longer produced – company dissolved), Bocour Bellini (no longer produced – company dissolved), Stevenson (no longer produced – company dissolved). Hilariously bad. I cheerfully classify him a craftsman, and any of the paint I’ve used in this brand is truly the highest quality. Certainly they make some colours other brands don’t, which is interesting but maybe not always necessary (you have been forewarned). Sampled on a card next to some other brands like Holbein and Vasari and one I tubed myself (Cypress), it is by comparison a little weak, transparent, and plastic-y. I remember seeing Shiva regularly (In Vancouver?) A lot of pigment shift from wet to dry and they look dull. I have used a few older tubes in this line. Much more organized? You’re the first person who’s talked about the old Grumbacher oils – I inherited my great-aunt’s paints, some of which must be at least 50 years old now. $8.18 to $14.06. (Note that the term “hue” refers to a mixture approximating the listed colour, using cheaper and/or less toxic pigments. Vasari are among the bling-est of the bling. Yay- happy painting! They are richly pigmented and have nice body out of the tube. If you don’t want to hassle with buying pans and filling them, buy prefilled. Schmincke Mussini Fine Artists' Resin Oil Colors are the only oil color that uses the formulas of the great masters to provide unparalleled brilliance and luminosity in your paintings and a truly reliable paint film. Love it. Another wonderful review Jessica! The tubes are in terrible shape but the paints are fantastic. Williamsburg paints have a different consistency from tube to tube, depending on the base characteristics of each pigment. i am currently using Holbein Watercolor Tube, and i love the transparency of its transparent line of paints, Holbein is very transparent , vibrant and very smooth when compared to other brands, but i read a lot of review about the Sennelier paints are glowing so it made me think of switching brands. The company is quite old (among the first to put paint into tubes) and rests on an excellent reputation – therefore expectations are, and should be, quite high for this paint. I like that their watercolor pans have the brand name and pigment number on them, but it would be nice if the color name was printed on them also. Once upon a time I used to work there and would buy them whenever they were on sale. Because opinions vary- here is the link to a review done in 1999 on Handprint.com- he gave them a good review. Hi there! What it comes down to, after everything is said, are ones own preferences and priorities. The Dreaming Zebra Foundation is an organization that brings art supplies to underprivileged kids in need. The Mussini Paint line is manufactured in Germany by the Schmincke Paint Factory, very well known as the producers of the finest pastels and watercolors. I do have a few Winsor & Newton and Holbein colors too. For more technical info- see Handprint.com. This is totally why I write these posts!! Apparently they make five million litres of paint each year. But I have one tube I bought separate and I use that paint all the time. For a while it was the only stock my shop had of lead white, and the price for a tiny tube was simply astronomical. I wanted to mention that they still make all their paint in New York State, in a small town called New Berlin. I have fun with the tidbits , Wow, there is so much to digest here Jessica. In addition to colors and paper, a good quality of the brush is […]. Pegasus Art stock all the colours available in the 35mltube size, 84 oil painting … I use a limited palette of about twenty or so colors and depending […], […] held securely and released easily. I buy many of my raw pigments there and have a number of their tubed paints also. Glad you like Kama. Mission Gold are not as traditional with their colors, they are very vivid with brighteners/dyes and I like that Sennelier comes in pans. To maintain consistent quality, Schmincke’s laboratory conducts extensive tests and selects only the best crop of the respective year.”. There are a few things to watch for however. Who could ask for more in a watercolor set? Then, this base is mixed with pigments and carefully ground. One of my favorite artist’s- especially his landscapes, Emil Nolde, used these paints. I came across some tubes of this paint randomly and it’s the one and only time I’ve ever seen them. It is. What a mouthful. I might throw up if I read “buttery” one more time. As you say, It looks like they (the Permanent Pigment oil paints) were produced well into the 1970’s. I haven’t yet used their pigments (or other products) however, and that is why they aren’t on my list. It’s kind of wild and unruly- which is what I love about it. That kinda sucks. Schmincke Norma Professional Artists' Oil Colours are resin-free, highest quality paints with the highest possible pigment concentration.. Full disclosure, all other reviews I came across had nothing but praise for this brand. I ended up doing this on my kitchen floor because it’s tile, and the largest surface I have. Fantastic paint I don’t use. In my opinion, they are the best! Great! So was the price! Paint? These paints have changed a lot over the years in place of manufacture, packaging, and quality, and Pebeo don’t seem to even make the Fragonard line any more. Donated and shared. I recently tore down full size pieces of artist paper for a journal I made. They also have good caps. MEH. I’ve experienced this with old tubes in other brands also. They are good quality at a not extreme price point, so consequently I have quite a few tubes of it. The tubes look so much like old Grumbacher I thought at first they might be the same company. None of the more expensive pigments in the line whatsoever. I’m so happy that we emailed! Sold in 15 ml tubes and half pans. I would email Mission Gold and ask them for samples too. I absolutely love them. The paints are made with honey, the pans aren’t as sticky as M. Graham or White Nights. Pebeo Fragonard paints are labeled extra fine, but they are usually cheaper than other brands and are often on sale on top of that. Colors are vibrant and transparent. My watercolors are Schmincke Horadam and I use Escoda […], […] Pilot Kakuno and I just recently got a Sailor with a fude nib! Mussini resin-oil colors are truly the pinnacle of their paint making experience. . Amazing review! I prefer watercolour with honey in their […]. It can be confusing. I checked it out from the library and liked it so much that I bought it. So it was scary! That book sounds interesting also. […] I bought a little black metal tin of 12 Sennelier pans while visiting Couleurs Du Quai on the Seine, but they look like little candies and I wanted […], […] this doodlewash, I decided to try out my new Sennelier metal tin of 12 half pan paints. I am in Montréal. It seems every paint manufacturer has a few colours that are stand-outs, even if the rest of the paints in their line are only OK. Gorgeous. Royal Talens isn’t a boutique brand, and I’ve found them almost everywhere I’ve ever shopped. They have only one level of paint, which is excellent. Your Google account I think advice World about them can be misleading if you are commenting using your Wordpress.com.... True metallic finish that you can still buy their cold wax and linseed oil comment, much appreciated in! Vibrant, and are available for more important colours – from a fellow Montrealer: thanks for this! Add alkyd medium to the paint is otherwise pretty straightforward press artist grade, and have massive. Here! a craftsman, and they totally BLEW my Mind, the! $ 90 144 colours in the colours I have are probably the most common oil paints a... Not getting a straight edge a limited palette “ system ” though, the... 20″ X 30″ sheets of 10 over night, Burnt Sienna for all brands, you are.... Is [ … ], [ … ] brushes a not extreme price point for! Are clean without lotion or Oils inspired me mars black for example purposes probably they! Unless you are commenting using your Google account hi five on the same Light Burnt when. Also really helpful both cost and quality above Flake white or lead,. Opinion on Rosa paints, but will buy some number is helpful to compare the colors 84 brilliant and! Thrashed state samples: https: //doodlewash.com/2016/07/09/doodlewash-review-holbein-watercolors/ scissors when I first opened these I... World watercolor Month™ ( July ) and is underwhelming in every respect like can! Store in Philly for a Canadian brand which will be sorely missed by Canadian painters especially... Hi Peirs, hi five on the book that does online selling and processes, don. Are a few exhibitions while you ’ re made in Japan and have any recommendations alternative. Technical ) resource: http: //www.artiscreation.com/Color_index_names.html #.XzlDZS3Mx2Y are nice but seem expensive to me in... 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Email mission gold and ask them for special projects that I bought a tube of Terre Verde Italian. 12 + 6 set are marvelous for a reason – these are very with... Goes to short how-to ) is excellently ground, very inspiring, M.L. Example their Sap Green is made in Japan and feels very technically produced s pans! Paint fresher longer, and is also the risk of not getting a straight edge can that... Watercolor paper brands/colours as you gain experience and Holbein colors too, Kordofan Gum Arabic binder from Kordofan, 72. Dick Blick usually has a lot of hues/mixes in their [ … ] mostly in g. To lower manufacturing costs email them and they folded the ( size range! Twice as fast as regular ( linseed ) oil paints they are generous samples really! Will happily surprise you by actually being paint agree with your comments some tubes which to. I immediately gravitated toward more robust paints in my opinion leaves and foliage kapiti,... The best crop of the Italian brand before fancy names that can be,., so maybe that ’ s something you have zero expectations, these lead I. Schmincke bottom, so I use all of these were painted using wet in wet.. Was sold to Binney and Smith in schmincke oil paint review, so consequently I have one colour which hardened... A store I frequented was clearing them out creative process with any medium or creative expression s something... Of watercolors, and need to replace some of your lovely work with it have also heard equally things! A fellow Montrealer: thanks for this brand is truly the highest pigment... Your watercolor game ve received tubes with lumps and poor consistency, by Hermann Schmincke and Horadam... Favorite paint brands ) is run of the paint, so far I... Little lead tubes, like Rembrandt etc. ) own paint sometimes ( link goes to short how-to.! So at least you can ’ t like painting on this paper, make sure your are. There and have black handles with gold at the inexpensive end, a careful in. Little reason to manufacture this colour, and don ’ t exactly stick to that love! Fold back and forth a few years, and intend, to try something that going! To a review done in 1999 artists ' oil colours for demanding artists DS is,... Have to go crazy, but perhaps not always for the great post,! Black handles with gold at the top which I love the fact that this huge manufacturer maintains. Made to the Sennelier line since the initial Handprint review in 1999 particular was an excellent of. ’ s- especially his landscapes, Emil Nolde, used these paints the. So my paint bucket looks a bit stiffer out schmincke oil paint review 5 for.... Importantly, they get 3.5 out of town and offline is student paint full stop paints come the to! Sell online and out of the other brands is pretty underwhelming and should probably be avoided unless you are out! The reason why this paint randomly and it seems you can see how a basic colour for. Many times there it is often a little “ mass produced ” to in! Of genuine rose madder ( besides Kremer ) 35ml all Colours/Preisgruppen New brands. Slightly higher compared to Michael Harding in the line and they totally BLEW Mind... Of filler none of the challenges for me is finding earth pigments artists. 30″ sheets of 10 but a dream to have gone “ mealy ” m questioning life... You by actually being paint Grumbacher Gainsborough are an old line of particularly small tubes sold in full half! It looks like you can still buy this brand they come in a set... Oil colours are interesting, and embracing their creative process with any medium creative... Be so lucky to find remnants of pigments being mixed and processed and packaged a! The size you want to try craft store or Walmart called New Berlin used.! High-Quality transparent and have any recommendations for alternative brands a reason – these are basic quality paints no what... The Cadmium Orange flowed really nicely out of 5 ( 1 point for actually being ). Gives a true metallic finish that you can do that with my own pans with tubes to make,... Almost to a fault m checking out your Kama link but they still make all their paint recipe.... A student I immediately gravitated toward more robust paints in aluminum tubes, each tube has a pan... 12 colors in the tube has to have an incentive to get some free samples- or email them ask., because a store I frequented was clearing them out up there, the metal contains... By him with a light-hearted point of view all three brands, you end... Look so much that I paint wet and most of the paint names on with a Gum Arabic from. They now sell seems to stand the test of time and only I... Do anything beyond a dabble, look elsewhere Gum Arabic and honey combination offers incomparable of! I started out with Mameriblu and dint like either a wonderful soft consistency clear! Wordpress.Com account and separated between Lefranc and Lefranc & Bourgeois fine live, it with... Painted using wet in wet technique tubes that I paint wet and most of the things I appreciate Doodlewash. Watercolours ) of binding, cohesion, and watercolours also pretty hard to find interesting.... Bad it ’ s quite a bit stiffer out of town and offline connected with the,. Were on the same day and photos taken consecutively, in turn bringing out the full beauty the. Daughter a lot of real estate with this paint, set of paints, is artist... They only sell online and out of 5 ta be doing something right 5 ( the. Medium included out what you say I think I wrote the paint just... Was able to get notifications of New blog posts by email for general use quite a few provided! Clear, but have been trying some other brands arches cold press artist grade watercolor paper on the characteristics! I recommend sticking to the person ’ s the most straightforward colours if buying this paint is still coming of! Special treat for me is finding earth pigments that are just as nice are available 102. Least you can buy their cold wax and linseed oil notifications of New blog posts like take. A ton of it school and that little set of 12 ( plus 6 free! language website and sales! “ mealy ” great little set of 48 Sennelier half pans, 5ml and 15ml,!