The defense I was only following orders is sometimes referred to as the Nuremberg defense. Vaccine protection durable. Argument: I was only following orders" an acceptable defense? A books, movies, and more blog from the staff at the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh - Main. The reality is austerity under the behest of civil servants following orders, kills the poorest whilst the pockets of the wealthiest get fatter. The truth is about to finally hit the fan and this corrupt nazi Tory government will never be able to come back from their sickening disgusting acts that they are performing on the most invulnerable British people who are being deliberately targeted and treated like criminals and like we are pond life when we should be treated with care and compassion, a disabled person who is ruled as to be to sick to work needs help and care and compassion, we do not deserve to be victimized and treated like criminals, its not our choice to be disabled, its not something that we planned on for a career, sick and disabled people should never be treated the way that we are now, it is clear to me that this government and especially IDS mass murderer of the disabled thinks it is ok to continue his sick work of culling off and persecuting the sick and disabled in Britain, it is high time that IDS, the corrupt DWP and this government were all charged and prosecuted for the sick and twisted crimes that have been deliberately targeted at the sick and the disabled. Public interest issues, policy, equality, human rights, social science, analysis, the view from the dark side: politics, media, cities & culture, Blogging about music from early 80s indie to Britpop and beyond, The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. Plato, FATHER + SAILOR + TECHNOLOGIST + MUSICIAN + CYCLIST. Historians have incessantly warned us not to disregard the lessons of history lest we repeat failures that could have been avoided. For example, in New Hampshire a manager acting on behalf of his corporate employer in firing an employee that legitimately complained about sexual harassment by the owner could be found liable under the state employment discrimination laws along with the corporate employer for his participation in the illegal retaliation. But all German military personal from the lowest private to the highest field-marshall had a pay-book with a number of absolute commitments in the front. Shockingly, the results suggested any human was capable of a heart of darkness. Right face. Adolf Eichmann, a Nazi S.S. colonel, stands trial inside a bulletproof booth in a Jerusalem court in 1961. It is time to break the cycle. I have documented via petitions to every court in this nation and the OAS that all these simple principles ( natural law, common law and equity ) are ignored in every court in the former USA, pursuant to Executive Orders proclaiming bogus STATES of Emergency which results in judges conducting courts under summary procedures aka martial law rule. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. What to Know About Obeying an Unlawful Military Order He also the senior editor and manager of newsletters. newsletter for analysis you wont find anywhereelse. Spread person-to-person. Doctors are independent professionals. However, enlisted boys usually did not. It gives me a purpose. The concept was explained in 1957 in the Kafr Qasim massacre ruling. UCMJ has not been invoked often since its implementation. If they use force to compel your compliance, what will you do? 'I don't want to quit': This student is the only cheerleader at her high school 'I don't want to quit': This junior is the only cheerleader at her high school Home New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Scan this QR code to download the app now. booster. There is a strong argument against the officers of the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS at the post-World War II Nuremburg Trials in which those who issued orders that led to the killing of about 12 million civilians. Article 33 of the Rome Statute,[2] which established the International Criminal Court, allows the Nuremberg defense to relieve an individual of criminal responsibility provided: This principle, one of many drawn up in the run up to the Nuremberg trials, states: Nuremberg Principle IV was disputed in Canada when Jeremy Hinzman attempted to claim refugee status there after deserting the US army. This was not the case with all of the guards in concentration camps, but it was the situation for many. "The Nuremberg Defense", failed and failed again at My Lai, and once more at Abu Ghraib, yet more and more I hear from young police officers that they did_____ because their "boss" (Cpl, Sgt, Lt, etc) told them too. Cookie Notice Prior work had found that brain activity is dampened when people are forced to follow orders. Left: Cool.. Its amazing how you can try and try to get something, not even come close, and then all of a sudden it clicks and all goes well.. In his book The Abolition of Man, C. S. Lewis writes about universal moral principles he calls Tao or Natural Law. The decisions during these cases reaffirmed that following manifestly illegal orders is not a viable defense from criminal prosecution. Reblogged this on perfectlyfadeddelusions. Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. and our Calley's court-martial found him guilty of premeditated murder, and sentenced him to life imprisonment (President Nixon, for unclear reasons, immediately commuted his sentence to three years of house arrest). I was only following orders.. - Page 2 Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders. Right shoulder arms. On March 29, 1971, Calley was convicted of premeditated murder and . Occasionally, the Nuremberg Defense is referred to as the Eichmann defense. The first major UCMJ-related incident following Nuremburg was during inquiries and subsequent courts-martial following the My Lai Massacre of 16 March, 1968. In particular, acting under orders caused participants to perceive a distance from outcomes that they themselves caused, said study co-author Patrick Haggard, a cognitive neuroscientist at University College London, in an email. . Column left march. Large gatherings no problem. For example, a September 3rd, 2019, repost[4] of the meme by Redditor ElJeanMermoude received over 18,000 upvotes in /r/fakehistoryporn subreddit. The Nuremberg Trials of German war criminals after World war II determined that this is no defense, and that some orders are illegal and must not be followed. Researchers at University College London and Universit libre de Bruxelles in Belgium arrived at this conclusion by investigating how coercion could change someones sense of agency, a psychological phenomenon that refers to ones awareness of their actions causing some external outcome. In other words, US military personnel are not required to follow orders that contravene the Laws and Constitution of the United States. Of the twelve of us present that day, only I remain, and my own end is rapidly approaching. I've heard that the "I was only following orders" excuse - reddit The Nuremberg Trials are most notable for the unsuccessful use of the "I was only following orders" legal defense. On March 29, 1971, Calley was convicted of premeditated murder and sentenced to life in prison. I was only following orders! | AnandTech Forums: Technology, Hardware Please. Your email address will not be published. As a consequence, both the United States and the United Kingdom enshrined in Service Law the "Nuremburg Principle" which states that although Service personnel have an obligation to obey lawful orders from their superiors, they have both a right and a duty to disobey illegal orders. Not everyone disregards the past. Attorney Marr is licensed and practices in both NewHampshire and Massachusetts. In both cases - and in others - the emphasis is on lawful orders only. Right face. Article 91 covers willful disobedience of a superior Noncommissioned or Warrant Officer. Die Verarbeitung des Produkts erfolgt nur auf Bestellung des Kunden hin. Social Media for Small Business in Surrey & SW London. Generally, employees are liable for their own wrongful acts irrespective of whether or not they were doing so at the bequest of their boss. "I WAS ONLY FOLLOWING ORDERS" - Women In Green Manufacturing Consent, Propaganda And The Climate DenialBeast . Masks essential wear two. In other words, you have to pass yourself off as having been ignorant of the law, but even that defense is not tolerated in especially gross cases. The Nuremberg Defense has since become a political and psychological meme. Article 90 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) outlines the crime of willful disobedience by a military member a superior commissioned officer. Following the Nuremburg Trials, it became clear that the excuse, "I was only following orders" was an area that needed both clarification and elimination. Vaccine protection wanes, may need third dose. Hum sounds like you dont agree with our current president and you have way to much time on your hands to live in the fever swamps. The legal precedent set by the Nuremberg Principle IV states: Not only is Rowe a dedicated cheerleader, but she is a great student as well. The main argument for defense, as themusic mentions in hir writeup and the node title subtly gives away, was "I was only following orders.". Back in DecemberThe Poor Side of Lifemade the following observation: I was stopped by a homeless chap who wanted to congratulate us on our hard work. They said that when an individual follows an order that is illegal under international law, he is responsible for that choice, except under certain circumstances. 'Wir haben nur Befehle ausgefhrt' wird nicht als Entschuldigung akzeptiert werden. Millions have been slaughtered to satisfy the greed and lust for power of the few, and too often there is neither punishment for the guilty nor justice for the dead. Medication may be game-changer, wait for it. Until one day you are given a notice, you were conscripted into the Waffen-SS, along with another 200,000 Wehrmacht guys, to be sent as guards to a concentration camp. Court will convene at 9:30 a.m. Vicious dictators like Stalin and Mao, together responsible for killing over 100 million people, died of natural causes. In some cases, a third person an experimenter sat in the room and gave orders on whether to inflict harm. For a start, people who give orders should perhaps be held more responsible for the actions and outcomes of those they coerce, he said. ", Using your tongue to tie a knot in a cherry stem, I fell asleep to the lullaby of rat-a-tat-tat, Notes on ruining the beauty of barren places by being there, Vaclav Havel's address to the US Congress, 21 February 1990. I Dont ThinkSo, The Mexican Fisherman and the InvestmentBanker, How Basic Income could slow Climate Change. Its difficult to ascertain whether participants are really deceived or not in such situations., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU-rlInny6Q, Video by YouTube user Charles Ewing Smith. However, it was not accepted by the International Military Tribunal. Military members disobey orders at their own risk. The right to own private property that cannot be arbitrarily regulated or confiscated by the government is the moral and constitutional basis for individual freedom, The Federal Government Wants Your Land (Beyond 30 x 30), Cycles of History Ignored Kristallnacht in Amerika, Cycles of History Ignored Selective Ignorance, Due Process: Protective Wall for Judicial Rights of the Individual, Georg Hegel, Due Process, and Your Future, http://onlinedocketssc.flcourts.org/DocketResults/CaseDocket?Searchtype=Case+Number&CaseYear=2018&CaseNumber=1540, The Constitution, Individual Rights, and COVID-19 Restrictions, You shall not covet your neighbors property, You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor, The Golden Rule Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, Natural Law individual rights in the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution. Nothing to worry about. The U.S. Supreme Court held that Navy commanders "act at their own peril" when obeying presidential orders when such orders are illegal. That defense was first used in a 1799 naval blockade case and subsequently has been used in military cases related to the Vietnam War more often than in any other conflict. On September 2nd, 2019, Redditor[3] TheFebrezeWizard posted a Lego Yoda meme in which they edited Lego Yoda into the black and white photograph of Hermann Gring during the Nuremberg trials (shown below; original post no longer available). Translation of "I'M ONLY FOLLOWING ORDERS" in German - Reverso Context I was only following orders - Everything2.com Doctors forbidden to prescribe ivermectin. In 2004, the military began court-martials of several military members deployed to Iraq for mistreating prisoners and detainees. Although pleas from the unknown person could be heard, including mentions of a heart condition, Milgrams study said his volunteers continued to shock the learner when ordered to do so. I rose to the rank of corporal but was a squad leader. It depends on the order. Your email address will not be published. Masks not useful. Unknown to most civilians is that U.S. military personnel are not just trained to follow orders but are educated in following only lawful orders. Not everyone disregards history. Are we as free-thinking as we assume? When you are "following orders" regardless of your rank you are responsible for your actions and as such if instead of resisting your commanding officer you choose to kill an individual you are responsible for that choice. There were generals who did their best to counteract orders from above that were against principles of humanity; General der Flieger Alexander Andrae comes to mind. Healing items are your best immediate way to heal, camping also heals you but it passes time and only heals you for 10%, same with resting at the gym. Haggard said his teams findings do not legitimate the Nuremberg defense and that anyone who claims they were just following orders ought to be viewed with skepticism. So, to obey, or not to obey? Obeying Orders | Facing History and Ourselves Probably the most famous case of the "I was only following orders" defense was the court-martial of First Lieutenant William Calley for his part in the My Lai Massacre on March 16, 1968. Vaccine less protective, no return to normal. Place yourself in the boots of a citizen in Germany, 1940. Colin Powell, who was I led my squad in manual of arms and close-order drill, which taught us three things:1. A jury found Murdaugh guilty of murdering his wife and son. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. By Daniel Margrain "I was only following orders of my superiors" was a not an adequate defense for Nazi war criminals". An order that violates the Constitution or the laws of the United States is also unlawful, but interpretation of the Constitution can shift based on the composition of the Supreme Court. The campaigning seems to have worked as the U.N seems likely to set up aninquiryintothe sheer brutality and callousness of Iain Duncan Smith and his department. The public policy exception to the employee-at-will doctrine prohibits from an employer in bad terminating an employee because she refused to do something public policy would discourage or did something public policy would encourage. I went through four years of ROTC in high school and college. Unless explicitly noted otherwise, all content licensed as indicated by. While multiple documented uses of "superior orders" defence have existed prior, the plea is most commonly associated with the 1945-1946 Nuremberg trials, the military tribunals that followed World War II. The ramblings of a former DWP Civil Servant JohnPilger.com - the films and journalism of John Pilger, An NAS West Norfolk Coffee Morning | aspiblog, http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/euthanasia.htm. That punishment could mean reassignment to a penal unit in Dachau and perhaps a death sentence, even. My sister ordered the day before just to be sure they didn't sell out . Holocaust survivors and their families in Israel today will readily affirm their solemn pledge, Never again!. To develop a sense of group cohesion. The oligarchs must then impose authoritarian and increasingly brutal measures to maintain control. He was sanctioned, and without warm clothes and very little food he fell asleep on the streets and never woke up. Ethical problems arise when the mechanisms of government are perverted to grant excessive authority and privilege to the ruling class, who then enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. History teaches that "I was only following orders" is not a good defense. Following Orders - C3 Teachers A new study released Thursday offers one reason why people can be easily coerced into carrying out heinous orders. A private soldier was permitted the defence I had to do it or I would have been shot. That is, when people act under orders, they seem to experience less agency over their actions and outcomes than when they choose for themselves, Haggard said. Fire hundreds of nurses and techs who refuse vaccination. During the trials, the "superior orders" defense gained such significant notoriety that it started being used interchangeably with "Nuremberg defense" and associated with the German phrase "Befehl ist Befehl" ("an order is an order" or "only following orders"). Oh you will pop action t4 into a search engine it will show you sites explaining it and the summer of forty one will show you whot had happened dont be sad has of not nowing but is it history repeating itself if for some reason you cant find the refrance just ask il send a link to it jeff3, Here we go http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/euthanasia.htm, Now rtu ids said we were stock and that culling of the stock was uttered by him so perhaps hes doing this through denial of benefits but aktion t4 it seems they past that figure makes you think. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. In the last century, humanity has faced this moral dilemma too often, rarely with acceptable results. Thank you. These have to be strong examples of a direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ and not the military members own opinion. The military oath taken at the time of induction into the military is as follows: "I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. That indisputable admonition is commonly found in childhood parables, writings of scholars, clever sayings of gurus, and advice from our parents and elders. Consider their situation and the extent of their free will, first. Last week Showtime announced that "Billions," its drama about hedge fund egomaniacs, will be spawning several spinoffs. [7] Reddit I was just following orders for gods sake! They envy China's forcible vaccinations. For Byron, it was a psychological necessity to put pen, or quill, to paper in order to exorcise the ever-proliferating denizens of his mind; an eviction notice to all thoughts that they must go out Law enforcement personnel become the face of cruelty and tyranny as they are required to enforce edicts both they and the people know are illegal and immoral. Evil never sleeps. Joshua Barajas Fire hundreds of nurses and techs who refuse vaccination. Yes, there were ruthless killers among them that thrived on the opportunity provided them by the government. To march in a military manner. The process worked. They also obey orders at their own risk. So now, many of these people see nothing wrong with Australia's army-enforced lockdown. click 891.ART.91 (2) states that personnel are to obey "the lawful order of a warrant officer" (subject to rank). Right face. You are under strict orders by the kommandant to shoot any prisoner who tries to escape, and conversely the kommandant is under strict orders to the same effect by Heinrich Himmler. Now you are an unwilling guard at a concentration camp who could risk punishment if you fail to "execute" your duties in shooting an escaping prisoner. He died of hypothermia. As you consider your response, remember the lessons of history. Private England said worse things than those shown in the photographs took place in Abu Ghraib prison. I've used the example of the defense used at the Nuremberg war tribunal after World War II because this defense is mostly known through those trials and their defendants. i held it for a few thousand feet and didnt spin too much. I led my squad in manual of arms and close-order drill, which taught us three things: Covid not spread person-to-person. But, following her lawyer's advice, she did not give details. I was only following orders, a defense that fails in earthly courts, will most assuredly also fail in the highest court of all. Often the use of deadly force is necessary to stop a criminal in police work, just as in international affairs.<P>As for following orders; Not only were these people not given any choice (disobey . I think that "I was just following orders" is a perfectly - reddit For example, on October 19th, 2019, Redditor[6] k00ji posted a Rapper Mario meme which received over 11,000 upvotes in /r/okbuddyretard (shown below, left). According to the first argument, any action by an individual soldier can be defended by the famous statement "I was only following orders". we only know of them because tribunals, orders, and courts mention them. As our government continues down this slippery slope, it is very likely that law enforcement personnel and American citizens will find themselves caught on opposing sides of a constitutional and moral dilemma. This isn't a dress rehearsal for totalitarianism, it is totalitarianism. Everybody is not the storybook hero who can stand up to a whole governmental system and a whole military, as a young recruit, on moral grounds. I Was Just Following Orders, also known as the Nuremberg Defence, refers to a plea in a court of law used by persons not to be held guilty for actions ordered by their superiors. Possibly the most famous ever study in social psychology was published 50 years ago by Stanley Milgram (1933 - 1984) in which he claimed to demonstrate that ordinary people would perform extraordinary acts of torture in blind obedience to . In a second experiment, the team explored whether the loss of agency could also be seen in the brain activity of subjects. Required fields are marked *. They won, and the United States Supreme Court upheld the decision. The Queen's Commission specifically requires officers to "Observe and follow such Orders and Instructions as from time to time you shall receive from Us, or any superior Officer, according to the Rules and Discipline of War" This is a clear indication that Officers are not to follow, ergo not to give, orders that contravene the "Rules and Discipline of War," i.e. Subscribe to Here's the Deal, our politics newsletter. 1996 - 2023 NewsHour Productions LLC. However, the claim, "I was only following . We were only following orders - Nuremberg Trials (1945 - 1946) On August 27the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) announced that the number who died while claiming incapacity benefits between January 2011 and February 2014 was a shocking 91,740. You can also check the status of your orders and shipments by logging into Dashboard. One would have to establish that not following said orders would result in immediate serious bodily injury or death (or a reasonable fear of such) and that there was no reasonable way to avoid following the orders or alternative course of action available. Last edited by Rain/Storm ; 19 minutes ago. However, I believe one should draw a line of distinction between those who had the power to issue orders and those who had to carry them out. In a 1962 letter, as a last-ditch effort for clemency, Holocaust organizer Adolf Eichmann wrote that he and other low-level officers were forced to serve as mere instruments, shifting the responsibility for the deaths of millions of Jews to his superiors. This isn't a dress rehearsal for totalitarianism, it. Nina Metz: Hollywood says greed is good. Next up no joke - MSN According to Milgrams experiments, 65 percent of his volunteers, described as teachers, were willing (sometimes reluctantly) to press a button that delivered shocks up to 450 volts to an unseen person, a learner in another room. Military discipline and effectiveness are built on a foundation of obedience to orders. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. A data context class can be created manually by you, or when you're using Entity Framework (EF), you can generate a data context class . An order to perform a military duty, no matter how dangerous, is lawful as long as it doesn't involve the commission of a crime. Your conscience tells you that the Nazi party's discrimination of various groups is wrong, but you are going to be in the Werhmacht, far away from the atrocities of the death camps. The order was not manifestly unlawful. (LogOut/ Through two experiments, however, Haggard and the other researchers showed that people experienced a longer lapse in time in between the action and outcome, even if the outcome was unpleasant. Is there a basic moral law that defines and governs human interaction? Column right march. Covid not spread person-to-person. The chapter stated that the "superior orders" is not a valid defense against charges of war crimes. You remember the one who lied about everything and spent all his time blaming immigrants for running the country. Ever since, this justification that "I was only following orders" has been popularly known as the "Nuremberg Defense." As students will discover in this inquiry, while the war crimes tribunals of 1474 and 1945 may have agreed that HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL CENTER ZEKELMAN FAMILY CAMPUS